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I've also been told that cedar will not hold up for more than 5 years (if we are lucky). That cedar runners, and not pressured pine runners should be used with cedar. This is an expensive project, and I really do not want to make a mistake. Is there a non-biased opinion comparing the two woods? Or is there a third wood that's better than all the rest? My honest opinion? I can only speak from 20 plus years of experience. Properly treated southern pine lumber or posts will last for a decades even when in contact with the wet soil. That is, the old treated pine with arsnic which is no longer available. The new treated pine materials has the same warranty but only time will tell. {For above ground use {pickets and 2x4s}, the amount of preservative required is 0.25 pounds per cubic foot. For ground {posts} contact the amount of preservative is increased to 0.40 pounds per cubic foot}. As far as using treated posts and 2x4s with cedar, there is not a problem. It is less expensive using treadted pine. But make sure the contractor uses the proper nails. The new treated pine materials require coated galvanized nails. The electron coated galvanized nails will not hold up with the new treated pine materials. They can still be used with cedar as long as the posts and 2x4s are also cedar. Of course using cedar posts is not recommended since they will decay in a short time. The heartwood of western red cedar is known to be very decay (and insect) resistant and will also last for a long time. However, the sapwood of cedar (white in color and the second growth cedar (often lighter red than normal) do not seem to possess the same level of decay resistance as the heartwood of old growth. Much of the wood in the stores today contains some sapwood, which will decay within a year or two. Few if any contractors use cedar posts because they will decay very quickly in-ground. Today when cedar fences are built treated pine posts are used instead. Any prolonged contact with water will decay cedar fencing. I have seen the bottom of cedar pickets decay if installed in areas with a constant water source. Treated pine resists decay much better than cedar. For those who installed privacy fencing for the purpose of containging a pet I recommend treated pine because of the need to have the pickets close to the ground. From my experience treated pine lasts longer than cedar. Cedar often developes a green mold not seen in treated pine. Although cedar has less warpage the difference is negligible over time. The definitive difference between treated pine and cedar is the cost. I recently built a cedar fence at a cost $450 more than treated pine, even with treated pine framework {cedar pickets-treated pine posts and 2x4s}. So if treated pine is a better product, why do some contractors insist on cedar? Cedar is a lighter wood and is a bit easier to install. There is a mentality among some contractors that cedar looks better. But after a year when the wood turns to a grayish color, there is no difference in looks. The health risks of treated pine come into play also. You may not know that chromuim-copper-arsenic has been banned for use in treated pine because of health risks. The new chemicals, although approved by EPA, have yet to be determined as far as their health risks. For more on the ban on arsenic and the new chemicals available go Here {PDF page} |
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The same goes for the materials in decks as in fencing. Treated pine lasts longer. Building a deck from cedar is very costly. I have never built a deck using cedar because of the restrictive costs. Also cedar decks will have a problem with decay because of the amount of moisture. As far as the chemicals used in treated pine materials, arsenic is no longer allowed for use in treated wood. Although I have yet to see any health consequences from using treated pine, including chromuim-copper-arsenic, the verdict is still out. Since there is very little contact with wood fencing the chemical make-up of the wood is of little consequence except for absorption into the soil. Having at one time possessed a restrictive use pesticide license with the state of Tennessee I know first hand that ready used chemicals used in the past are no longer allowed today. We can only hope there is no health consequences since so many decks and fencing are built from treated pine materials. The liability would be even greater than that of asbestos if and when chromuim-copper-arsenic is found to be harmful to the health of people and animals. Having handled these materials for so many years I would be the first to experience such health problems. The alternative in deck building to using treated pine and cedar is ChoiceDek materials available at Lowes and Home Depot. But it is expensive. For more information about this product go Here |
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3-16-06